File this under obvious. It’s disgusting me how many Americans and American politicians want to prevent other Americans from building a place of worship wherever they want to (pursuant to local building ordinances, etc.) If Muslim-Americans want to occupy the old Burlington Coat Factory two blocks away from where the World Trade Center stood, good for them.
Of course I personally think Islam is ridiculous. I think that about all supernatural beliefs. But I vehemently defend a person’s right to believe whatever they want–even if it’s ridiculous. After all, it is this very same toleration that allows me to say what I believe.
The most repulsive cherry on the tippy top of this whole shit sundae has got to be Newt Gingrich. He’s going to run for president, I guess. So he’s on television saying abfuckingsurd things about the issue: It “would be like putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust museum.” And suggesting that we in America should take our cue on religious liberty from Saudi Arabia, which doesn’t allow synagogues or churches within it’s borders.
This is what Republicans want to run on? Loudly demonizing their fellow Americans while simultaneously taking a whiz on the religious freedom our country was founded upon? Good luck with that.
On second thought, remembering how many of my friends and neighbors think the mosque should be prevented, maybe it’s winning issue for them.
Which brings me back to being disgusted.
There used to be a time when conservatives liked to utter the phrase, “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
Not anymore it seems.
Where were all these people since 9/12/01 protesting the existence of the other mosques in the area? They really want a religious world war. It’s the only way for them to rationalize their hatred.
Oh, and if there was ever any doubt in your mind that Harry Reid is shameless, spineless, power-hungry bastard who would sell out any morals or decency to get a vote, this should put that to rest.
So are you saying that you don’t understand why people are getting so upset about a mosque being built a couple blocks from Ground zero?
Also it looks to me like your position is “saying stupid things should disqualify (or at least keep people from voting for) people who are running for high office.” Is that accurate? Are you willing to hold your own side to that standard?
Don’t get me wrong. I personally think this whole Mosque thing is much adu about nothing. Seems to me we Americans have the chance to be the adults here and ignore the whole thing or at the very least be tolerant of it. Seems to me that would be a more mature enlightened point of view. Instead you have the President flip flopping (I actually agreed with what he first said) and the Senate Majority leader now coming out against it along with everyone else who is worried about getting re-elected this year.
I don’t see that Gingrich is saying anything much more stupid than Obama or Reid is. I guess we could argue that if you want to play the “Your guy is dumber than my guy” game but I’m not really too interested in doing that.
I also do understand why people are so upset about this. And I’m guessing the Mosque is being built there specifically to slap us in the face. I just wish as a country we were above this petty shit.
I understand people’s inclination to abandon their own freedoms in the face of fear and hatred. I just find it disgusting. I also understand politician’s inclinations to cynically use the phenomenon for their own purposes, Reid included. I have no problem with anything the president has said, however.
Ah, there’s the pseudo-outrage, right on cue.
I’ve heard lots of Republicans and conservatives object to the mosque, but I sure haven’t heard many talk about having the government shut it down. And you haven’t offered ANY evidence here that “religious freedom” is at issue. Either put up, or stuff the empty hyperbole.
And as usual, your complaining doesn’t even display the slightest familiarity with the reasons people object to it. Speaking of disgusting…
I sure haven’t heard many talk about having the government shut it down.
I thought the whole thing started with an attempt to block it by having the building deemed a historical landmark or some bullshit. (An attempt which failed.)
And you haven’t offered ANY evidence here that “religious freedom” is at issue.
It’s like you’re walking in a forrest and declaring that you can’t see the trees, Calvin. Correct me if I’m wrong but if someone is prevented from building a place of worship because of their religion isn’t that ipso facto infringing on their religious freedom?
your complaining doesn’t even display the slightest familiarity with the reasons people object to it.
I think it all boils down to this. Lots of people believe Muslims as a whole are somehow culpable for the 9/11 attack. Are there other reasons?
While I’m asking questions, do you object to the plan? Do you favor government intervention in the plan?
“if someone is prevented from building a place of worship because of their religion isn’t that ipso facto infringing on their religious freedom?”
Only IF SOMEONE IS PREVENTED from doing it, Professor. Saying “this is a bad thing” or variations thereof is manifestly not “preventing” someone from doing something.
“Are there other reasons?”
1.) Islam has a history of erecting mosques at sites of Islamic conquest. This particular mosque – the Cordoba House – was named after one such conquest in Spain – suggesting that these people interpreting the mosque as a deliberate insult and provocation are correct.
2.) The guy spearheading the mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf, has a history of expressing anti-American and pro-jihadist sentiments, including that “United States policies were an accessory to” 9/11, that America should be more “sharia-compliant,” and refusing to admit that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Gee, I wonder what the true motives of a guy like this might be…
More: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2462
So are you and everyone else just saying you don’t like it rather than saying it should be prevented? Because that would place you pretty much where the president seems to be.
Islam has a history of
Not that I think you have the remotest clue about the history of Islam, but it isn’t the issue anyway. The history of the United States, including it’s promise of religious freedom, is what’s at issue here. Either you want religious freedom for everyone or you don’t. Which is it?
I’m still wondering whether you would welcome government intervention.
Wow. Your utter inability to digest information in an even remotely honest way never fails to impress me. And by impress, I mean sicken.
A completely content-free response. Let me see if I can give you something productive to weigh in on.
1) Do you agree with Newt that this building project is akin to putting a swastika up next to the Holocaust museum?
2) Do you agree with him that we should take our cues on religious liberty from Saudi Arabia?
3) Do you welcome government intervention on the project?
4) Do you believe religious liberty is for everyone, not just those whose message you like? Kind of like the first amendment right to speech which protects speech you don’t like?
5) Exactly how many feet away from the site do you have to get until the First Amendment kicks in again?
Salon.com has a good summary of how the story exploded into the bullshit controversy it has become.
I just thought I should add this, seeing as Calvin and other bed-wetting righties have tried to paint Feisal Abdul Rauf as some kind of radical extremist:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_08/025282.php
If this Mosque is a symbol of victory, I find it even more glorious that it is to be built in the shadow of the SOM masterpiece that will be Freedom Tower.
There can be NO DOUBT that this congregation has every right on Earth to build their Mosque/Community Center on that site. Do I think it is brash and insensitive, yes I do. Do I think that it would have been the right thing to do for the Imam to accept the offer to relocate the project, yes I do. I also know that offense or perceived offense of ideals is no reason to infringe rights granted by the first or any amendment to the Constitution of The United States. Those words mean what they say, and they say that the government has absolutely no business infringing the rights of any citizen to practice their religion, so long as that practice does not infringe upon the rights of others.
I am disgusted by many on the right who have pulled their jack boots up, knee high, on this issue.
For God’s sake they are building the thing in the shadow of one of the most beautiful skyscrapers built in 40 years, on the site of their alleged victory. Freedom Tower, a 1,776 foot masterpiece, will loom over that building, visible from the roof, for the entirety of it’s existence. It will be a constant reminder to the extremists who may attend it that their murderous attack was in fact not a victory, but an opportunity for America to prove that it not only can, but will persevere.